Actual Proof against Monitoring? Anyone?

Dear HonorBuddy Community, please grab your tinfoil hats for a while and join me in this thread for the next few minutes.

This is not paranoia, it's merely a hypothesis.

How many times in this forum have you heard "It's againt the Law for Blizzard to monitor your computer"? If you are new you probably have no clue, but if you've been here for over a year you've probably seen it more times than you can count with your fingers. Now, I too was a 'believer' that they couldn't monitor your processes and memory/etc. Not because there was a law against it (because I know that my country at least doesn't have anything remotely similar) but because I thought it would take a lot of resources (hardware-wise) for them to store and process the information. But then, after the massive ban increase after Mists of Pandaria I started thinking... "Hey... maybe they have learned new things?"

So that's how it all began, I started doing some research with mad Google skillz with the following search terms:
-blizzard monitoring ToS
-blizzard breaking laws
-blizzard monitoring laws
-warden monitoring
-blizzard warden
-blizzard warden laws
-blizzard anti-bot

And a few others, all leading to no result that could confirm that they were in fact NOT monitoring anything.

As for Hardware pieces, I know that they DO keep that information (GPU, CPU, Windows Install, MAC, etc) as do other games when they want to ban someone. They have it somewhere in their ToS and that wouldn't be illegal at all.

My theory is that they are in fact doing it for whoever they slightly suspect is botting. Hence why people who manually farms aren't getting targetted. Let's say for example that if you get reported then your account is instatly flagged for revision. When revised or monitored if they see you're running a bot (process) then you're instantly banned. That would also explain how they can catch all of your accounts in one wave.

IM NOT SAYING THE BOT IS DETECTED, What I'm saying is that if they please, they can check if you are in fact running one and tag you for a scheduled ban. That way they can manage their income in a more organized way. Ban someone every few months knowing they'll buy more accounts. It's their regular clientelle, instead of the casual ones. My friends which only own ONE account and bot on it almost never get banned. But I, who run 9+ usually get banned every few months.

Now, back to the Process Monitoring. Does anyone have ACTUAL PROOF that indicated that they are in fact:

1. Not doing it
2. Not allowed to do so

If you have any proof or knowledge about the subject I encourage you to share it. And please avoid the ranting about 'HUR DURR LAWS NOT ALLOWED HUR HURRR' and give us some sort of proof.


Thank you, tinfoil hats off.

 

This message has been found in many GM responses after being banned:

"When running, the World of Warcraft client may monitor your computer's random access memory (ram) and/or cpu processes for unauthorized third party programs running concurrently with World of Warcraft. An unauthorized third party program as used herein shall be defined as any third party software, including without limitation any addon or mod, that in Blizzard Entertainment's sole determination:"

They are admitting that the Wow client monitors the computers ram and cpu processes for bots, and you can guarantee that they will do this to accounts with prior bot reports or suspensions. After my 3 day ban I will no longer use my bot until I feel that Honorbuddy has somehow solved this problem.

 

That's exactly why I made this post. They "admit" that they can monitor your computer but most botters here will tell you they don't. I just want to know if they have actual proof that they don't monitor your PC.

 

Your right, the devs one of which has a 'Professor' title and another who sometimes assists is known as one of the best 'devs/programmer' on WoW just happens to forget to read the terms of service after all that wasted time of reverse engineering Warden... use your head please, do you really think that Bossland/Honorbuddy doesn't protect it's customers against being banned via detection such as this? if you're right then your theory is that they don't care if they lose 10s of thousands of pounds.

take a minute to process that information and you'll see that you're as safe as you'll ever be using a bot program, and yes it is true that Blizz has gotten harder on bots this year and stepped up their game somewhat (especially against end-game herb/ore farmers), this is partly in thanks (or even all) to the new player reports.. you can't spam the AH like you used to.

 

First of all, I'm offended. I tried to state my case in the best possible manner, it was merely a hypothesis, and so is yours. If you want to call out names for that, then lets go at it, poopoohead.

I was just trying to research another approach. Of course I know honorbuddy is *pretty* safe. But WHAT IF Blizzard could or is in fact detecting and we just can't see it because Instead of MASS BANWAVING people, they decided to ban eventually as a source of extra income.

I mean, I know they've gotten harder on bots, I know all the other possible theories and things that could get you flagged as a bot. It just doesn't make sense that people using HonorBuddy for Raids are getting banned too. I've always seen botting as a profit-machine, but it's getting harder every day for me to make money off it because of all the investments I have to make due to bans.

Maybe I'm a stupid botter and it's my fault that I'm getting banned, maybe it's something else. Since I've discarded the first option, I had to look for something else that would explain a lot.

I too used to think the "we monitor your RAM and Processes" email was just something to scare dumb people, but hey, maybe it's possible.

It doesn't matter if you are a 'Professor' or a PHD, a human is a human and they are always prone to make mistakes, even little and stupid ones.
*cough* *cough* infected release x4 *cough* *cough*

 

I'd just avoid MoP areas, I'm not getting banned at the moment since last time around a month or two ago.

 

whatever dude, i believe you. But explain the following:


"When running, the World of Warcraft client may monitor your computer's random access memory (ram) and/or cpu processes for unauthorized third party programs running concurrently with World of Warcraft. An unauthorized third party program as used herein shall be defined as any third party software, including without limitation any addon or mod, that in Blizzard Entertainment's sole determination:"

 

my 2 cents.

Look at rift. HB made a bot, it was detected and banned. Do you see them offering a rift bot?

No bots in rift. Rift went F2P.

Correct me if im wrong, but isnt this how rift finds bots? I thought i stumbled upon this on ownedcore fourms.

 

ahahahahahhaHAHAHAHAHAHHA made my day

 

Anyway,i undestand what you saying, but WoW botting community cannot even be compared to rift.So ye they wouldnt bother to say its safe etc...while having 30 threads started each day in the banned section

 

I dont know about bossland but to be honest if there is a lifetime subscription somewhere, i wouldnt be 100% sure that the company does everything to keep the product top notch

 

I'm not saying the bot is detected. I'm saying if they want to, they can detect it.

 

I laugh every time i see someone write "checking for running processes is illegal"

 

I don't. You can laugh all you want, however the statement will remain true. One can only check for processes that attach to your program, in this case processes that attach and/or modify that one process. If there isn't a link between the two, then they will not, and can not monitor it. If anything else were true, all game companies would have a very easy time banning any illegal third party program.

A great example to this would be how Counter-Strike hacks work and how VAC protects against it. When you launch your cheat, it has to attach to the Counter-Strike process, this will leave a trace with a specific ID. VAC works as a database that scans for all known IDs and ban if it detects one attached to their Counter-Strike process, it doesn't scan your running programs, if it did it would be so much easier for them. This is also how private hacks stay undetected, public versions get thousands of downloads which make it very easy to ban that specific ID, however while many private hacks are fully identical to the public version, the ID is different and unique to that one purchase, which means that it most likely won't be detected.

 

Under computer laws they can do it but only under certain circumstances where they think a account is hacked the code is extremely well hidden as it uses virus code to hide itself looking at wow.exe it is normal

There was a botting virus network around some years ago and it used 50 ip addresses in it and they were hidden took 3 virus programmers to find out the ip addresses in it and they worked 8+ hours each day for 3 years in order to find the ip's to close the network it is the most complex botting network of all time

As for detecting the virus that was not a problem as virus scanners detected the code that was hiding the ip's in order to stop the infection

Virus companys do not take long in detecting viruses but it takes a long time to find out what a virus does it can take days but of course they do not do that at all in most cases because of the amount of samples they get a day

The gather buddy team has been getting infected for 2 years now and did not look at the code as they do not know anything about viruses

A lot of programs use this code and virus scanners have changed detection as it is good for protecting programs

 

^^ pretty much

 

Mate, Santa is comming in december!

 

My 2 cents. This is a post I made a few weeks ago...

The bot is detectable. End of story. It's in the terms of service that Blizz is allowed to scan your running processes OUTSIDE of world of warcraft while WOW is running. HB is a running in plain sight. Not only can they check your processes, but also look at your HD serial number, check your IP address and your OS. You agreed to allow them to do this when you installed the game and you agree after every major patch when they force you to click 'I agree' to the TOS and EULA before you are able to login to the game.

To all the know-it-all geniuses who will say (*Thirsten Howell III voice*) "Well if it were detectable, they would just shut every account down as soon as they checked". Not true. Does a cop pull EVERY speeder over? No. Do they ticket EVERY jaywalker? No. In the case of WOW, they go after the most egregious offenders really hard. Look at the ban reports. They are full of hard core farmers (*Lost 8/8 accounts today. Any chance i can appeal?" ROFL). You'll see people here and there being banned for leveling or BGBuddy or dungeonbuddy, but they are almost ALL farmers. Why? Farming is probably the most harmful thing the bot does (exploiting the economy, selling gold, etc). Leveling is like speeding wile farming is like armed robbery. The cops WILL go after you for that crap. So, they let the minor botters get away with the minor stuff. Why, you ask? Subs. They'd lose a ton of cash if they got rid of ALL the botters. Also, killing farming accounts will MUCH more likely result in those people buying more accounts to keep farming which results in more ca$h for blizz.

To all the know-it-all geniuses who will say (*Thirsten Howell III voice*)"Well, it's against the law for them to scan processes outside of WOW". To you, i say that you are very naive and dumb. If you're pulled over by a cop it is against the law for them to search your car. But if they ask you if they can and you agree, it is TOTALLY within their right to do so. It's very, very simple. If you grab a girls boobs out on the street, you go to jail for sexual assault. If you ask her first and she says yes, you get to cop a feel and it's alright. Again, blizz said they would be checking your computer if they wanted to and you ALL said ok. All you folks saying crap like "GB2 is detected" are only partially right. What's detected is Honorbuddy and the reason you got whacked was you're doing one of the worst kinds of botting there is.

Why do you think your beloved bossland people don't and will NEVER make an arena bot? It's because that would be even worse than farming and that would probably be enough to shut honorbuddy down for good.

Here is a snippet of the TOS I am referring to since 99% of you have obviously never read it.

Acknowledgments.

You hereby acknowledge and agree that:

A. WHEN RUNNING, THE GAME MAY MONITOR YOUR COMPUTER'S RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY (RAM) AND/OR CPU PROCESSES FOR UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS RUNNING CONCURRENTLY WITH WORLD OF WARCRAFT. AN ?UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM? AS USED HEREIN SHALL BE DEFINED AS ANY THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE THAT, WHEN USED SIMULTANEOUSLY OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE GAME, WOULD CONSTITUTE A VIOLATION OF SECTIONS 1, 2 OR 7. IN THE EVENT THAT THE GAME DETECTS AN UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM, BLIZZARD MAY (a) COMMUNICATE INFORMATION BACK TO BLIZZARD, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE ACCOUNT NAME, DETAILS ABOUT THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM DETECTED, AND THE TIME AND DATE THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM WAS DETECTED; AND/OR (b) EXERCISE ANY OR ALL OF ITS RIGHTS UNDER ANY BLIZZARD AGREEMENT, WITH OR WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE TO THE USER.

B. WHEN THE GAME IS RUNNING, BLIZZARD MAY OBTAIN CERTAIN IDENTIFICATION INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR COMPUTER, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION YOUR HARD DRIVES, CENTRAL PROCESSING UNIT, IP ADDRESS(ES) AND OPERATING SYSTEM(S), FOR PURPOSES OF IMPROVING THE GAME AND/OR THE SERVICE, AND TO POLICE AND ENFORCE THE PROVISIONS OF ANY BLIZZARD AGREEMENT.

Flame On!!!

 

Finally a well constructed post. Thank your time writing or copy/pasting it. You've made some good valid points. I could never find anything that backed up the "geniuses" opinions. But it's quite scary to think that Honorbuddy is detected, you know? I had botted so hard and for so long in Cataclysm without a ban that I assumed the bot was incredibly safe. But then I started getting ban-waved (as in, all of my accounts, except for those which never used a bot) and just assumed I made mistakes. But hey, it's also possible that it is in fact detectable. I mean, there's no proof against it after all.

I honestly believe everyone, including myself, is in denial of believing the bot is detectable because we would completely dislike knowing such truth.

After all, Ignorance is Bliss.

 

Please read my previous post on this, I am pretty sure the law on this is the same worldwide, atleast in EU it works as i state. The Terms of Agreement does indeed state that Blizzard is allowed to scan your RAM. But this is limited to the RAM that is accesible to only WoW, not processes outside.

Your analogy with cops doesn't hold water. There are a lot of peoples that get banned after a few days of botting to their regret. It's all about player report, bot activity and gold selling. If there are sufficient player reports you get investigated, if you move enough amounts of gold then you get investigated. If you bot for 30 minutes a day, but are stuck half the time, you will be investigated. Now, to further strengthen my point, lets look at hackers in World of Warcraft. Why does people using flyhack not get banned, teleport hacks and so on if they were able to so easily determine if the player was using unauthorized software, I mean, the amount of hackers there are will not dent their cash flow at all, and I bet you its not good for the ingame health.

Why do you think that most game cheats that exist in any game doesn't need to use some random name for the process that runs? It's because they aren't going to be targeted for a scan outside the WoW process, so there is no need to hide it and complicate it for less experienced users trying to find it in the program manager.

I know of course that my post probrably won't change your mind on this, but hopefully some will see the better of it, instead of spreading false rumors on this subject. Quite frankly, as I have previously studied IT, with a dad who been in the programming industry for before I was born, and have several Law-studying friends all i can say is this: It's basic knowledge. Scanning outside proprietary processes are illegal and a heavy breach on personal privacy which can be sentenced very hardly, so if what you are saying is true, you better hurry up and hire a good lawyer cause you'll be rich.

**Just a quick edit about people being banned, most ban reports are by inexperienced botters who try to farm too much in short amounts of time. If what you were saying, why doesn't all the heavy gold farmers/sellers get instant banned? There are more people than i can count, botting for millions of gold every month and selling it without being banned. I got a temporary 72 hour ban on a SoR account which had already sold over 250k gold, if Blizzard were 100% sure that i was actually botting, then give me one reason why they wouldn't perma ban me.