Actual Proof against Monitoring? Anyone?

Thank you for the response. First, I believe they COULD be micro-managing botters to their profit. Ban accounts that have a high probability of purchasing a new one. If you've noticed, they usually love banning right after you pay for subscription (or at least in my case, happened twice in two waves). If you think about it, in a dying* game as a good businessman you want to make the most out of it, and managing botters is probably a pretty good way to do so (mostly statistical and probability work). I'm pretty sure they have a team designated to fight bots and in charge of doing these waves.

Again, it's just a theory.

As I said in my initial post, my country has absolutely no law that covers the grounds of internet communication, and I'm damn sure that they wouldn't care about an foreign company spying on the citizens that play WoW (NSA and their international montoring for example lulz) so I don't see how they are enforced by law to not scan outside their process. If you think your property is at risk you should be able to investigate further to prove your claims. Violating the privacy of the user only goes to some extent if you are violating their rules which you agreed to. So pretty much both customer and retailer are violating eachother... with consent.

On the matter of hackers. Well, simply, they are hackers. Meaning the accounts they are using to "hack" don't belong to them. So let's assume a GM bans a hacked account. Yay, one less hacker in the game, but then comes the angry customer saying "AMG IVE BEEN HAXED BLIZZ PLZ HALP" and then comes the man hours that Blizzard has to put into investigating the matter and restoring the account. So they probably don't care because they know those accounts are doing no harm to the game by themselves, it's the hackers which they of course can't ban unless they put a team of GMs to investigate the whole hacking network.

Honestly, I don't know what to believe since no side of the argument has tangible or solid proof of the claims. Both hypothesis could be true until one is discarded, and there's not enough information to discard any of them.

Again, this whole post is just a BIG 'WHAT IF'. You can't say it's a false rumor until you can prove 100% that it's false.

I'm still botting though, 6 accounts up and running atm down from 14. Gonna switch it up more this time, though last time I was doing it as safe as possible.

 

This is a common conspiracy, but what many fail to realize is that it is not cheap business to keep track of all botters. It requires GM attention, programmers time to code new detection methods and so on. If this in any case would be true, Blizzard wouldn't have sued MMOGlider back in the days, just as they are doing right now on Honorbuddy, the case just wouldn't be worth if it they had a safe method of determining whatever or not somebody uses a third party program.

I'm pretty sure almost all civil countries today have some internet privacy acts that protect you from this, only to be overruled by patriot acts and other anti-terror laws, can't say for sure thought as I don't know where you are from. However, to answer on the second thing, there is no such thing as 'thinking' ToS is broken and action needs to be taken, Blizzard has no rights to determine that. Their only option is to eliminate your subscription, they have absolutely no rights to do anything else that invades your privacy. Even if Warden catches Honorbuddy in WoWs memory, they cannot take any action besides what their GMs are capable of.

True, but some are real accounts, but it's hard to monitor. Anywho if you think the man hours it takes Blizzard to investigate these issues, then beliving that they manage who to ban or not to ban when botting is a long stretch. Again, if Blizzard has clear proof that you have used a botting application, then why is it so easy for so many people to appeal their ban? Back to the issue about money, if they were seeing a profit out of it, wouldn't it be more beneficial to not approve any appeals made, so that the user is forced to buy a whole new game and expansions? If Blizzard were doing a business of this, they would also know that many botters use secondary accounts that they are prepared to replace if need be.

The tangible evidence your looking for is in our rights. In Denmark where I'm from, even not the Anti-Piracy Organization has the rights to scan our drive without our permission even if they tracked our IP from a torrent. While this is a bit more strict than most countries, it's still an extension of the basic privacy rights that most countries (ALL EU countries and more) utilize. USA has the same basic privacy rules and Blizzard would be in for a huge trial if it would come to attention that they did indeed scan our RAM outside of WoW.

Just to explain what the ToS actually means. We do indeed give permission to Blizzard for them to read our RAM, but only the memory space created by the WoW application itself. This space is isolated from other applications running (which also is isolated from each other). Blizzard do not have permission to read what other applications output or receive, unless it attaches to the WoW memory space.

 

Please show me what law states, an application cannot check running processes and/or process list.

 

I agree they have *****ed down on the "gathering" side of things, but they seem to let you quest with kicks without a damn problem. I watch my bot follow other botters and we all bug out in the same spots and do all the same stupid moves AND can you tell me what the chances are of any human doing the "exact chain line hand picked quests" that kicks profiles uses? lol

I bet they know where using kicks before we hit level 10! But maybe its not affecting the in game economy as bad as gathering so they just flag the account and put it on the "high risk gather watching" for later on.

They are SUPER strict on gathering, ive leveled bot after bot letting it run all hours of the day not watching it, just sit and laugh at it when it gets stuck and does stupid circles and watch other players /facepalming me and im sure ive been reported but not once been banned for questing.

HOWEVER! Put any of those same quested level bots on a Herb/Mine leveling up profile, and im toast before lvl 50 - 60 even with breaks. Now I know about the LCP crap, but no one here can tell me kicks LCP aint the biggest path ran by a HUGE amount of players! Not only the paths, but the hand picked quests!

They are simply fine tuning the best way to keep botters coming back, spending more money, with the least amount of messing up in game economy.

Hell thats what id be doing, money money money!

 

There are so many things wrong with this and it's sad.

FIRST: The terms of service are not limited to RAM scanning. I posted that part of the TOS in my post and it clearly says it can scan ram AND RUNNING PROCESSES OUTSIDE OF WOW. You agreed to this. I'm not sure why so many people on this forum force their eyes shut to this and stomp around with their fingers in their ears going "LA LA LA....I CAN'T HEAR YOU...LA LA LA". Also, there is no WORLDWIDE law regarding this. That's absurd.

SECOND: "blahblahblah you will get investigated", "blahblahblah you will get investigated". What do you think an investigation consists of? A GM porting to every single bots location and watching to see if it "moves like a bot"? Do you really think all these people who get perma banned are banned based completely on a GM deciding your character moved around 'like a bot'?

THIRD: I am in IT myself and am also a programmer for a very long time. Don't have any law school friends but it's not needed in this instance. I will say this again, yes, in caps... YOU HAVE AGREED TO ALLOW THEM TO SCAN PRETTY MUCH YOUR WHOLE COMPUTER OUTSIDE OF WOW. This includes the hard drive, network info, RAM, running processes, mac address, etc. This makes it legal for them to do this. If you install some game that does not include this in the TOS, then it IS illegal for them to do it. I'll try to explain this for the slow people in the room. If you punch someone in the face in front of a cop, the cop tackles you and takes you to jail. IF YOU ARE A BOXER AND HAVE AGREED TO SANCTIONED FIGHT, YOU CAN LITERALLY BEAT SOMEONE TO DEATH, WITHIN THE RULES AND NOTHING......AT......ALL......WILL......HAPPEN.......TO......YOU. Get it? THEY ARE ALLOWED, and they do.

You are an absolute dumbass if you think everyone gets banned simply by having a GM view the bots movements.

 

OK. This is amazing. The above quote is the biggest problem in the HB community. This guy literally proves his own point wrong in his own post.

He says..."In Denmark where I'm from, even not the Anti-Piracy Organization has the rights to scan our drive without our permission". Blizzard also does not have the right to scan outside of WOW without your permission. BUT YOU GIVE THEM PERMISSION TO DO SO BY AGREEING TO THE TOS. My God. I cannot believe the logic of some people. Caps again in case you missed it....YOU/ME/EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO PLAYS WOW GIVES BLIZZARD THE RIGHT TO SCAN OUTSIDE OF WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will post the TOS AGAIN for you to view THE PERMISSION YOU GAVE TO BLIZZ!!!

He says...."Just to explain what the ToS actually means. We do indeed give permission to Blizzard for them to read our RAM, but only the memory space created by the WoW application itself. This space is isolated from other applications running (which also is isolated from each other). Blizzard do not have permission to read what other applications output or receive, unless it attaches to the WoW memory space."

TOS posted below. TAKE SOME FKING TIME TO READ THEM AND REALIZE WHAT RIGHTS YOU ARE GIVING UP BY PLAYING WOW. Actually read what is in front of you and drop all your preconceived ideas about what's legal and what isn't. READ IT!!!! This is cut and pasted straight from the TOS on Blizz's website. I added the bold and underline for the folks who have trouble accepting this idea.

READ IT
READ IT
READ IT

Acknowledgments.

You hereby acknowledge and agree that:

A. WHEN RUNNING, THE GAME MAY MONITOR YOUR COMPUTER'S RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY (RAM) AND/OR CPU PROCESSES FOR UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS RUNNING CONCURRENTLY WITH WORLD OF WARCRAFT. AN ?UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM? AS USED HEREIN SHALL BE DEFINED AS ANY THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE THAT, WHEN USED SIMULTANEOUSLY OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE GAME, WOULD CONSTITUTE A VIOLATION OF SECTIONS 1, 2 OR 7. IN THE EVENT THAT THE GAME DETECTS AN UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM, BLIZZARD MAY (a) COMMUNICATE INFORMATION BACK TO BLIZZARD, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE ACCOUNT NAME, DETAILS ABOUT THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM DETECTED, AND THE TIME AND DATE THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM WAS DETECTED; AND/OR (b) EXERCISE ANY OR ALL OF ITS RIGHTS UNDER ANY BLIZZARD AGREEMENT, WITH OR WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE TO THE USER.

B. WHEN THE GAME IS RUNNING, BLIZZARD MAY OBTAIN CERTAIN IDENTIFICATION INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR COMPUTER, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION YOUR HARD DRIVES, CENTRAL PROCESSING UNIT, IP ADDRESS(ES) AND OPERATING SYSTEM(S), FOR PURPOSES OF IMPROVING THE GAME AND/OR THE SERVICE, AND TO POLICE AND ENFORCE THE PROVISIONS OF ANY BLIZZARD AGREEMENT.

So, for your whole argument that so and so can't do this and that without your permission....YOU GAVE THEM YOUR PERMISSION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

If your country law is opposite of the blizzard TOS, it overrides it. It does not matter if you sign TOS, if its not legal in your country, blizzard cant do it. Country law > blizzard rules. (they even say this in TOS)

 

Law also says you can't phisically harm another person, yet there have been sports built around harming other people to achieve victory since ever. Some rules override another when all of the people involved give their consent.

 

+10

 

No proof another obvious troll thread.

If you got a opinion that is no problem but these kind of I KNOW THE BOT IS DETECTED I HAVE NO PROOF BUT I AM 100% SURE THREADS are starting to annoy me....

 

You've missed the whole thread and came in here thinking you knew what you were talking about, didn't you? Go read before you end up looking even more ignorant.

 

Plain and simple if hb was detected it would be May 20th 2008 all over again.

 

Maybe it's becouse there are hundreds of these kind of threads on the freaking forum and you've only been here for 2 months.

Looking ignorant no the fact is honorbuddy isn't detected and untill anyone supplies proof it shoulden't even be suggested it may potentially be detected.

When honorbuddy gets detected you will notice.

The behaviour of the bot is obviously pretty botlike but that is becouse it is a bot and bots don't look human.

 

Again, you didn't read crap. It's all hypothesized, read it, then talk.

Also: http://www.thebuddyforum.com/members/113677-zonpan.html

Been here for year and a half.

 

And you're calling me ignorant....

I'm tired of these threads in general hypothesized or not it always comes to the same thing it's a endless discussion that is always there when it doesn't need to be.

 

Then let it be?

 

Whatever the detection system is it's not aimed at people running questing bot for a few hours a day.

And the people who are getting banned aren't gonna bot less most likely or not use gatherbuddy for example.

So if they look at how much ore or herbs you gather in a certain ammount of time then there's not much a bot can change about the banrates if the users keep overusing it.


And also you reporting other people who use gatherbuddy isn't gonna help.

 

Following your logic the bot is detected since ~2008. (It didn't even exist back then, but this was the time when the scan paragraph was added to wow.)

Doesn't make much sense don't you think?

 

So what are you saying? The terms of service that millions of people agree to mean nothing? And the TOS of all software is meaningless? Are you saying every ban that happens, happens because a GM ported to the site and actually witnessed 'bot-like' behavior? Or let me guess, you believe a few people report a bot and the GM's just decide...."well, he must be a bot. a few people said so". Get real.

 

Get real?
If a company puts in their tos that there are no refunds when the law describes there is for a certain time period then that law goes above the tos.
Same thing applies to any other tos.

The law simply goes above the tos like any freaking normal person should know that is common sense.

As for the detection system there is one and it is automated the thing is questing for 1hour a day supervised is very little chance to get banned if they could detect honorbuddy they would ban anyone who uses the bot they don't care if it's for an hour or a month they want to ban everyone who uses it.