Actual Proof against Monitoring? Anyone?

You say bot is not detected.

You say bot is detected via some means.

You say that it is detected for sure and it is automated.


Man you sure do know a lot for being internally confused and having different stories......just saying.

 

Really? Why being so offensive, seriously saying I'm the problem with the HB community, yet you are the one being offensive and claiming theories as a fact.

Let's read the ToS together shall we?

WHEN RUNNING, THE GAME MAY MONITOR YOUR COMPUTER'S RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY (RAM) AND/OR CPU PROCESSES FOR UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS RUNNING CONCURRENTLY WITH WORLD OF WARCRAFT. AN ?UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM? AS USED HEREIN SHALL BE DEFINED AS ANY THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE THAT, WHEN USED SIMULTANEOUSLY OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE GAME,

Now whats that? FOR UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS RUNNING CONCURRENTLY WITH WORLD OF WARCRAFT. WHEN USED SIMULTANEOUSLY OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE GAME.

I hope you realize what this means. They are only allowed to scan your RAM that is connected to the World of Warcraft memory space. As i mentioned, ToS agreements and alikes can be very vague and has to be clearly read to understand what it fully means. As always, don't just read the full sentence in ToS, comprehend what the individual words mean: CONCURRENTLY is the big word in this case.

 

Some people can comprehend the ToS better than others, read my post above. You fail to fully understand what it means.

I'm sure they have some server-side bot detection put in place, anything else would be unlikely. However, this is most likely not very effective. It it were, why would botting still be such a huge problem? However, this detection is not a process scan method, neither something that is specifically targeted for Honorbuddy. Blizzard recently made a Honorbuddy specific detection attack, however this was fast spotted. Now, if you were to advocate that they make some sort of business out of having botters running, then why would they try to make a new detection that would have caught most of us if not fastly spotted by the development team? If they already had detection in place, why would they use resources to make an alternative way?

While i do not know, if the AMA was from a true Blizzard GM, there was a reddit post not long ago with one claiming to be a previous GM that explained how it worked. If what he says are true, then yes, there are several GMs allocated to watch bot movement and behaviour to determine whatever the player is botting or not. Have you heard of the teleport test? You probrably have and this is clear proof that GMs does infact interfere with bot detection.

I have doubts. It is pretty 101 in the IT business to know that you aren't allowed to watch peoples outside of your own allocated memory space? I don't want to hear more about that ToS as i think i have clarified enoug what it means.

But let me give you an example to why it is illegal. The RAM can carry sensitive information, let's assume that some programmer had malicious thoughts, and he had a great idea for a game too. If he were allowed to scan your process, what would stop any game developer from obtaining sensitive information? This is an act of keylogging, spying and is considered malware. Is malware legal in any countries? No, therefor RAM scanning isn't allowed outside of your own allocated memory space.

Thanks, thats nice of you to say. I have never said that ALL bans are the cause of that. Maybe they have LCP detection, or maybe they have other bot detection methods in place. You are a dumbass for insinuating something that i have never said. You have absolutely zero proof in your cause, yet you keep using it as a fact, there are so many suggestions that disproof that Honorbuddy is detected.

Law - need i say more.

Several new attempts to detect it for years now - Why waste development time and money, if they already had a 100% working detection method through process scanning

GMs tracking bot behaviour (teleport test) - Why waste GM time and money to track behavior, if they already knew he was a bot through detection?

The wide amount of bots never being banned, or only temporary once - Why would you ban an account for 72 hours for botting, then have the same person bot shortly after and not ban him again? Or perma bans being succesfully appealed, and botting contiuned without a new ban?

 

So if blizzard monitores the ammount of nodes per hour the bot is detected what kind of logic do you have?

Anyone could trigger that not just a bot.

 

con?cur?rent (kn-k?rnt, -kr-)
adj.
1. Happening at the same time as something else. See Synonyms at contemporary.
2. Operating or acting in conjunction with another.
3. Meeting or tending to meet at the same point; convergent.
4. Being in accordance; harmonious.

I don't think so buddy :/

 

See what I mean by "problem with the HB community"? He read it and still doesn't get it. Concurrently means AT THE SAME TIME. Meaning, they can scan pretty much your whole computer WHILE WOW IS RUNNING, but NOT while WOW is not running. Christ. There are so many of these posts it's scary.

Don't talk to me about law overriding contracts. As I said, it is very illegal to beat someone to death. However, you can beat someone to death during a sanctioned fight in a boxing ring, within the rules, and you will never even be arrested, let alone have a trial. It has happened many times. Again, it is illegal for them to scan your pc WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION. But you GIVE THEM PERMISSION. Buy a vowel dude.

 

I sense we are never going to reach an agreement on this, you chose to ignore all my other points and are so narrow sighted on the ToS that you fail to see the bigger picture. If you had some counter points, or new one to what I am saying, maybe you could somehow make me reconsider my stance, but since your only argument is flawed, there is no point keeping it going.

Concurrent, a word of many meaning:

Operating or acting in conjunction with another.
Meeting or tending to meet at the same point; convergent.

These are the important definitions.

Again, just to reinforce my point. ANY game that you see, has a similar ToS that states that you give them acces to scan your RAM for third party programs. If they were allowed to scan outside of their own memory space, why is it so easy to bypass the anti-cheat? A strong case, as i mentioned earlier is Counter-Strike and VAC. While VAC is allowed to scan your RAM, the only way the legally can detect a cheat is by checking for Injections by ID into their own process. Barely any cheats use a fake process name to mask the cheat, IF Valve could check for processes all they had to do it blacklist 'XXXX Multihack", but it's not so easy. It can be hard to understand, if your not well read into this subject, but why do you think that Honorbuddy does not need to mask their process name? It is because it is unneccesary.

If your argument had any merit, then name 1 game that detects cheats by RAM scanning. There is none, all game checks for injections onto their own memory space, even though you agree to all multiplayer games that they are allowed to scan.

**Edit

You oversimplify the law, here is a short explanation why some sports are legal while they would be illegal otherwise:
Every professional sport association is sanctioned and regulated (from an organization structural standpoint) by the government. Just like the gov.t can authorize and/or pardon actions by individuals and/or companies which would normally be illegal, they can contractually and conditionally permit the same for an organized sporting industry leader.

This does not apply for Blizzard.

 

What people fail to see about the "terms of service" is it's contractual value. Without an ink signature on the ToS it would be unenforceable, so any private scanning on any computer without written consent is a violation. Anyone could have hacked your computer and agreed to that ToS. Children who play WoW aren't legally bound to any contract without the guardians consent. WoW's esrb rating is T for teen. Until 18 children are not held liable and even then, written consent would still be needed in the form of a "Memorandum of understanding".

My 2 copper.

 

Well now that makes a lot of sense, though I don't really know what the laws about contracts and signatures are. Isn't agreeing to permission request kind of giving them the power to do it?

 

How would they know it was actually you?

 

I'm afraid that a digital signature is as acceptable as a written one these days. Even if you didn't accept, the license is bound to the computer/account, not the specific individual who pressed it. Otherwise, each time you violated ToS you could just state that you didn't agree to it, and therefor they have no right to perform whatever action they did. The same goes for any piece of software/hardware, and it is the owners responsibilty that the agreement is being upheld.

 

Digital signature defined: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_signature and What is digital signature? - A Word Definition From the Webopedia Computer Dictionary

If a 13 year old child cuts grass and hustles money and buys WoW and game cards without comprehension of the meanings and definitions of the ToS then are they accountable? The ToS has no digital signature attached and is unenforceable in contract law so anything written in ToS is just trying to make you think it has power when in contract law it has none. People put up with it because their accounts get shut off if they don't click "I accept", but rules are broken on both sides and who is willing to push the issue besides the game maker trying to illustrate power it doesn't really have except in the mind of the player.

 

Pressing I accept to a ToS is a binding contract between you and the company. They are allowed to enforce their ruleset within their domain if this contract is broken, of course within state law. This goes for any digital agreement. Imagine, how easy it would be to exploit, if you always could lay the problem on someone else, claiming to never have accepted the Agreement. When you play World of Warcraft, it is with the understanding that you SHOULD have read and accepted the ToS, Blizzard does not need any proof of that you have actually agreed to this, as it is a neccesary requirement to enter the game, and your own responsibility to have read and understood it. There would be no viable cause for bans if the situation were as you state.

There are plenty of examples on this. iPhone and Jailbreaking, some countries have deemed it illegal and punishable, do you really think you could just deny the ToS and avoid the punishment, albeit I haven't heard a case of it yet being used, the example still holds. Any software/hardware that has some sort of Agreement, always requires that the current user has read, understood and accepted the terms, regardless of him being showed it first. You may doubt this, but let me give you an example. What if i were to play on a shared computer, with World of Warcraft already installed, I would not be met with the ToS upon starting the game, as it has already been agreed upon. If I happen to break the ToS, am neither I or the owner of the computer not liable for punishment? It is the users own responsibilty as mentioned.

As this is a custom ruleset, within their own digital domain, they can hold anybody liable for anything without cause. They can terminate your agreement at will. Regardless of you being under 18, or over, the same rules apply. However, you could say that it would be the guardians responsibilty to make sure that the child doesn't play something without knowing the ToS behinds it. Also, if you are under 18 and have registered an account without permission of a guardian, then Blizzard do have cause to terminate the agreement as stated in the ToS if I'm not mistaken.

Anywho this is going pretty Off-Topic, a response to what you said originally, then Blizzard is allowed to scan your RAM but only within their own memory space (WoW.exe and what other processes they might get running at some point).

 

They got the IP from ur ISP if u havent a Dedicated static via a vps with a vcc paid with libertyreserved( i see what i did there).


Anyone good programmer knows how we can identify if they scanning our comp? Can we check the packets or smthing?

 

Labze, you are absolutely right under Maritime Law. If a financial loss has been determined in their favor then they would win. Fortunately we live on the land and under Common Law they have no ground to stand on without a red ink signature. Then again, who's going to fight em over a game? It's merely principles we give up for a virtual life. Remember statutes aren't laws, and if you're basing an argument on statute then look up the definition of it because statutes are enforceable if you allow it.

 

For almost 5 months, i've been using HB inside a 500MB pen-drive. with a crypted pw. And "another" little secret to hide it.

I had 6 bans before I started using HB inside a pen. And 0 bans on the last 5 months.

Maybe luck?! I don't know, maybe... But still working. Botting 9h-12h /day

And remember... Plugins are your BEST FRIENDS EVAH! Learn how to use them... Please... You're banned cuz you play 12h+, player reports or (myth atm) blizz scan your Ram etc etc..

 

Yes but thats visible under ur RAM as it does starting honorbuddy from ur computer

 

Even a pen inside a virtual machine, and HB inside virtual machine linked to 'real' pc?

This sounds like paranoia.. I know , but If somehow i'm wrong, I mighty be a lucky bas%$rd

 

You need to explain your comp configuration in depth, so we might check this out.
You run ur HB in virtual machine while you have the wow open on your real comp?

 

Quick question since there are many points here about law, sue, etc...

Lets say that Blizzard is doing something illegal/outside the law/anything.... Lets just say for a moment that this is the case..... How many of the botters here are willing to actually pay for a lawsuit against Blizzard? I just had a meeting a week back with a lawyer related to opening up a new firm (totally not related to WoW or botting or gaming lol), and just to get the corporate structure, share holding structure, etc in place and some advice on policies, etc., this guy was charging approx. US$3500/hr... Now agreed that he is a very "high end" lawyer from a "fancy" firm who really knows their business, however lawyers in general don't come cheap.... So now assuming you had to just fork out a few Ks for such a law suit, how many botters are willing to go up against Blizzard who probably has their own internal legal team as well as has access to and can pay for expensive lawyers if they wish to?