This PvErs vs PvPers Crap is Disgusting And Needs to Stop - Here's Why

Title says it all, and I sincerely hope the threads accusing either side of being the root-cause of the bans are locked and given the appropriate infractions. Now I've only commented on a few of the threads myself, but having seen the pointlessness and finger pointing on both sides, I wanted to give everyone (PvE botters and PvP botters) a bit of perspective on why all of us are responsible for what happened with the HB banwave, and no one side is greater/worse than the other in terms of blame. A number of us lost accounts for 6 months in the ban-wave. I personally lost a second, and while I can understand the frustration, here's a few things both sides should consider and hopefully dwell upon the next inevitable time something like this happens. Make no mistake, it will. No one can say any differently. That being said, here goes:

PvErs: - You guys seem to be the loudest in terms of placing blame upon those of us who used HB for Random PvP or Rated PvP, which is completely understandable given that your particular CRs or Leveling/Farming profiles were also caught in the ban-wave. That being said, the phrase that "PvE botting doesn't affect other players as much as PvP botting" seems to be the go-to argument, and frankly, it couldn't be more wrong. Here's why:

Consider for a moment that raid spot you held/hold. Consider your guild, your guild's worldwide ranking, your boss kill timers, your DPS logs, the charts associated with those logs, and even the favoritism you might receive from your raid leader for every night that you pull those amazing numbers, with that amazing awareness, or whatever other amazing feats you might be accomplishing versus these raid encounters. Having considered those things, place yourself in the shoes of a raider who knows nothing about HB CRs or any other competitive Bots + CRs and signs up weekly, logs in daily, or even checks monthly to see if there's a spot for them in one of the better guilds or even your own. They can't pull the numbers you pull, they can't match your perfect rotation, your perfect combination of awareness, etc., so they're benched, passed over for you directly, or denied a spot entirely. You're setting the bar (especially if they play the same class), and they have no means of possibly reaching it. On the same note, they aren't noticed or talked about amongst your guild's officers or other high-end raid leaders, so their ability to progress is directly hindered by your inability to mess up. You gain the better PvE rewards: (faster gearing, better PvE achievements, better access to better raids/guilds, etc.) whereas they're left wondering what on earth they have to do to be in your position. Despite this not being a direct battle between two opposing players, you have undeniably "beaten" them and will always do so. In short, you have directly affected their gameplay and WoW experience.

PvPers - You guys (myself included) were hit the hardest by the banwave, because a large number (or all, if you only used it in Arena) of your HB CRs and botting ability has been shut down as a result of the ban-wave. You (myself included) might have to use another botbase for Arena CRs, and in general, there's some major complications in regards to getting running again.

That being said, consider for a moment that RBG/Arena Roster Spot you held/hold. Consider your rating, your guild's ladder ranking, your damage/interrupts logged, the charts detailing that damage/number of interrupts, and even the favoritism you might receive from your RBG/Arena leader for every night that you pull those amazing numbers, with that amazing awareness, or whatever other amazing feats you might be accomplishing versus the teams you face. Having considered those things, place yourself in the shoes of a fellow PvPer who knows nothing about HB CRs or any other competitive Bots + CRs and signs up weekly, logs in daily, or even checks monthly to see if there's a spot for them in one of the better teams/guilds or even your own. They can't match your damage, your number of interrupts/clutch plays, your perfect combination of awareness, etc., so they're passed over for you directly, or denied a spot entirely. You're setting the bar (especially if they play the same class), and they have no means of possibly reaching it. On the same note, they aren't noticed or talked about amongst your teammates or other high-end RBG/Arena leaders, so their ability to gain rating is directly hindered by your inability to mess up. You gain better high-end PvP rewards (faster gearing, better PvP achievements, better rating/access to better PvP guilds, groups, teams, etc.) whereas they're left wondering what on earth they have to do to be in your position. On top of that, given that you're using these CRs/kickbots in rated PvP against other teams on a ranked ladder, your team's damage, clutch interrupts, etc directly affect the other teams' players in ways that could very well (and often do) secure more wins and higher rating climbs in shorter amounts of time, something which all but guarantees your ability to sit on said rating and gain Gladiator status at the end of the season. In short, you directly affect other players' gameplay and WoW experiences along with whoever might be competing with you for that spot.

Conclusion? - It's easy to see how both sides affected other players equally. You can't argue that PvPers affected other players more than PvErs because both sides contributed to other players not having access to the rewards we all sought/seek from the end game. Considering the sheer amount of guilds/teams competing on both fronts, it's easy to see that the actions of both sides using HB to perform necessary functions for success/minimize their chances of failure are of equal "blame" in any kind of argument that can (and sadly did) spring up in the wake of this or future ban-waves. We're all botters, and no one is better than any other when it comes to paying the price for getting caught. That's the lesson I'm trying to instill here, and hopefully it leads to some decent discussion and understanding on both sides. No one should resent anybody. It's pointless, disgusting, and frankly a waste of time altogether.


***EDIT***

This is NOT a post complaining about the removal of Arena from HB. That's done and over with. If that's what you took away from this, then re-read it again to better understand the point and distinction I'm making.

 

Good points. If you don't get intelligent responses, or any responses at all, it will only be due to this subject being beaten to death. The people calling for battlegrounds content being blocked are players who have lost the ability to use HB in the Arena due to enforcement of non-support and are simply vindictive, and wanting the whole world to burn.

They hide behind the guise that they are concerned about losing their ability to have their combat routine automated in both non-Arena PVP and PVE in order to hide their personal agenda of spite.

 

Much appreciated, and while I hope to get some decent, intelligent responses to this, I have no doubt that some of the TLDR crowd will poke their heads in to claim I'm retarded or wrong in some shape, form, or fashion. It's the primary reason I highlighted the portions I did. Hopefully it gives more people some actual perspective, though.

 

pft..

Find me one post.. just one post of a raider complaining about someone botting in there raid...

Wait what's that ? you cant ? because where are not ruining there game for them..

End thread

 

great players will always beat a botter at pve.

i think your views on pve are skewed. we are not hindering a players chances at obtaining a raid spot, we are saving 19 other players from having to carry another bad.

 

I have yet to find a CR that plays better then i do myself in raids.
But i suppose for some people this might be true?

 

Just another PVPer upset he lost his arena- and possibly going to loose PVP AFK BGS...

 

+1 Why most people dont care if someone is botting in LFR if the boss dies quicker or the healer keeps us up, who cares if his botting.

I dont see any disavantages in botting in pve for the other players in my raid, what I do see is a helping hand.

Unlike Arena and BGs The bots may help one side but give the other side a disavantage, unless the other side is using a bot. Maybe blizzard should give botters their own Arena system and BGs that way it will be a even match.

 

Your logic is fail, because no PVE Boss come to forums complaining that you, PVE raider are no missing a single kick, or bursting when trinkets procs align, or changing targets so fast that you actually cannot see what happened.

The PVE raider is fighting a scripted encounter, and the PVP player is facing another human, and the human factor is the only one very important here.

 

while this is true in the most basic sense, it is much more than a scripted encounter.

20 players all working together to fight a scripted encounter. one player dies and the whole script goes wonky. 19 others have to adjust their script to make up for the missing player. the boss's script gets out of sync to what the rest of the raid is doing and the fight goes south.

pvp? give me a break. any great pvper knows every class inside and out. every spell, every strategy, every comp. what is more scripted than sheep,cyclone, kick? when interrupts are a huge part of arena, then its obvious that an auto interrupter is a huge advantage.

 

They are good points. But not as good as you might have wanted them to be. Especially on the PvE side. Yes, PvE bots (class specific rotations etc) do not hurt the gaming community as much as PvP bots. Player versus Player. The person sitting behind the computerscreen won't be able to beat you, gets frustrated. Perhaps even thinks about quitting PvP in general because of this.

If we look at PvE bots. What do they do? A great deal of damage/tanking/healing? Is this bringing the community down? I doubt it. Is this hurting the community? Not as much as you explained. The reason why is because, sure, you migth never lose your spot as the top healing/DPS etc. But that doesn't stop the non botter from moving on, trying to find a different guild perhaps. And ofcourse, not everyone is botting. Someone else might stop/give up their spot. Every guild has people who stay. That person might be you (the botter). Is this wrong? I don't see why. Actually if you look at it. The PvE bot gives the raidgroup you're in a huge benefit because of this. You're downing a boss faster then other guilds. Getting better loot yes. Would this affect other guilds in a bad way? Well..that's debatable. Since you can say "Yeah, because the bots doing such a good job. They will clear that raid faster then the non botters". But then again. Would this be so bad? In general no one knows that they are using a bot. Unlike PvP bots where every cast you do get instantly interrupted/feared etc.

I think the conclusion of this story is that PvE bots are affecting the community passively. (People don't suffer so much from them in general)
And the PvP bots are very agressive in a way that it will have a huge effect or impact on other people's gameplay.

 

and the same is true in PvP. It is well known the higher rating you get the less bots you see...the 1800-2.2k zone is known as bot country

I'm actually amazed at how in denial pveers are about their impact on the game, at least pvpers admit they are cheaters. The blue post made after the banwave even specifically mentioned people that automate their rotation.

 

don't expect an intelligent reponse from you......

 

Find a post a prove me wrong..

Just another cry baby- upset that he cant flash is epenis anymore with his arena rating anymore... I though you where moving to another bot.. can you please hurry up and leave.

 

Im sorry but his right, No one crys about someone botting in PVE. Its all pvp and always has been for a long time well not all but about 90% of complaints are pvp. Its good that we dont see bs anymore in arena but we all know someone is creating something just for Arena. They will make it sell it get a huge amount and then get crushed by blizzard.

Honorbuddy only lasted this long due to having cash to fight.

 

Reported

 

Lol, For what speaking the truth?

I can see by your post history- Just another one upset with the arena removal..

 

My question to you -

Why do you sit on the forums all day? You make a post every 5 minutes on every thread there is!

If your trying to achieve moderator rank, your post contest does not help you.

There are literally a million other things you could be doing, but instead you crash every thread into the ground and make this community one I don't want to be a part of.

 

No, Just the threads about PVP.. I actually do my best to help just about every other thread that's posted..

So I guess you could say my mission is to ensure BGbuddy is removed from HB aswell.. and to ensure the devs don't ever consider adding arena again..

 

And what good would that do? Irregardless of the bots that are there, the main thing is that at anytime blizzard could be reading your memory and scanning registry items - therefore finding your bot.

What happens when I get banned doing PvE? Can I come on here and demand that all PvE content be removed? No I cant because its the risk I take.

P.S. How old are you?