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  • BuddyWing combat, we want your input!

    Discussion in 'Buddy Wing Forum' started by Aevitas, Mar 5, 2012.

    1. Aevitas

      Aevitas Well-Known Member Staff Member Buddy Core Dev

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      Hello!

      We're still working very hard on getting Buddy Wing: The Old Robot ready for launch. We've come to the point where we're working on getting the combat for all classes and advanced classes sorted out, and we would like to ask our community to help with this. As Singular has already proven, the best way to go for default combat classes is a community-driven project. We strongly believe in this, and aside from the fact that it isn't humanly possible to play each and every class at max level while working on Buddy Wing as well, we would like to involve you guys in the development of the combat classes.

      What can you do? Well, if you're interested, you could provide us with "rotations" - though they're not strictly rotations, more like "what do I cast when?".

      If you have a maximum level character, and you think it's fun to do your part in the development of something awesome, you can provide spell conditionals in the following format:

      It doesn't have to be in that specific format, but those three things have to be in. If you're telling me to cast a CC spell, but you forgot to tell me that it should be on someone we're not targeting right now, because it'd break otherwise, it'll go south. To give you an idea, here's a line Kickass gave me:

      Code:
      Spell.Cast("Force Lift"), // logic - if 3+ mobs and 1+ being a silver / gold elite - cast on the gold, or silver (in that order)
      Now that's really useful. I know I want to cast force lift, I know I want to cast it on a silver/gold elite mob, and that I want to cast it when we have 3 or more mobs attacking me. That's something we can turn into CC logic!

      Anyway, here's a list of all the classes in the game. Green are the ones we have reliable CC logic for as it stands, Orange means we have a stub, but we still need more input, and Red means we don't have anything on that particular class yet.

      Empire
      Warrior - Juggernaut
      Warrior - Marauder
      Bounty Hunter - Powertech
      Bounty Hunter - Mercenary
      Inquisitor - Assassin
      Inquisitor - Sorcerer
      Agent - Operative
      Agent - Sniper

      Republic
      Jedi Knight - Guardian
      Jedi Knight - Sentinel
      Trooper - Vanguard
      Trooper - Commando
      Jedi Consular - Sage
      Jedi Consular - Shadow
      Smuggler - Gunslinger
      Smuggler - Scoundrel

      We already have all basic classes covered, so there's no need to provide those. We're after the advanced classes specifically. I'll keep this list updated as we make progress.

      We hope we can get combat going strong with you guys' help, and once we get our navigation problems sorted out, we should be making great progress. :)

      ps. Please keep this thread to combat rotations only, and discussion in the discussion thread. :)

      Thanks,
      Aevitas
       
      Last edited: Mar 27, 2012
    2. Kickazz006

      Kickazz006 Well-Known Member Moderator

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      Jedi Consular - Sage

      I dev on this and i'll be supplying spells for the n00b Aevitas
       
    3. Croga

      Croga Well-Known Member

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      Trooper - Commando - Assault Specialist:

      - If Plasma Cell not active: Plasma Cell
      - If in group and have agro: Diversion
      - If health < 80% and no healer available: Adrenaline Rush
      - If health < 60%: Adrenaline Rush
      - If multiple targets close to each other outside myopic zone and Mortar Volley off cooldown: Mortar Volley on central target
      - If multiple targets close to each other and Assault Plastique off cooldown: Assault Plastique on central target
      - If multiple targets close to me and Pulse Cannon off cooldown: Pulse Cannon on central target
      - If multiple targets close to me and Concussion Charge off cooldown and not in a group: Concussion Charge
      - If in Ammo preservation mode and Ammo < 7: Hammer Shot on weakest target
      - If Ammo < 3: Recharge Cells
      - If target not affected by Incendiary Round: Incendiary Round on weakest target
      - If High Impact Bolt off cooldown: High Impact Bolt on weakest target
      - If Full Auto and Reserve Powercell off cooldown: Reserve Powercell
      - If Full Auto off cooldown: Full Auto on weakest target
      - If enough ammo available: Charged Bolts on weakest target
      - Hammer Shot on weakest target

      Trooper - Vanguard - Assault Specialist:

      - If Plasma Cell not active: Plasma Cell
      - If in group and have agro: Diversion
      - If health < 80% and no healer available: Adrenaline Rush
      - If health < 60%: Adrenaline Rush
      - If multiple targets close to each other outside myopic zone and Mortar Volley off cooldown: Mortar Volley on central target
      - If multiple targets close to each other and Assault Plastique off cooldown: Assault Plastique on central target
      - If multiple targets close to me and Pulse Cannon off cooldown: Pulse Cannon on central target
      - If multiple targets close to me and Explosive Surge off cooldown: Explosive Surge
      - If in Ammo preservation mode and Ammo < 7: Hammer Shot on weakest target
      - If Ammo < 3: Recharge Cells
      - If target not affected by Incendiary Round: Incendiary Round on weakest target
      - If High Impact Bolt off cooldown: High Impact Bolt on weakest target
      - If Stockstrike off cooldown: Stockstrike on weakest target
      - If enough ammo available: Ion Pulse on weakest target
      - Hammer Shot on weakest target

      Also; I have experience building CCs in Singular and some time available. If you want me to help code, let me know.
       
      Last edited: Mar 5, 2012
    4. Aevitas

      Aevitas Well-Known Member Staff Member Buddy Core Dev

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      Thank you very much, that's exactly what we're looking for! :)

      For now we're keeping the CC development internal until at least release. However, we'll have a similar community-driven combat extenibility system like in HB, so you'll definitely be able to make CCs of your own once BW is released.
       
    5. Croga

      Croga Well-Known Member

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      If you guys do a half decent job (and I'm quite sure you will) I'll probably be too lazy to change it ;)

      As for the rotations:
      I specifically didn't use any CC abilities since the Assault Specialist is awesome at AOE damage. The bot would have a *very* hard time stunning and then using AOE in a way that doesn't break CC.
      For flashpoint-use it's probably best to change the rotation but that's gonna be a whole different story I think :)
       
      Last edited: Mar 5, 2012
    6. silentscope1

      silentscope1 New Member

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      They only thing different between Empire and Republic sides should be spell names as classes are meant to mirror each other, i.e. Sith Warrior Juggernaut and Jedi Knight Guardian should have the same play style and logic the only difference is the name of spells and talents - rage/focus, Sundering Assault/Sundering Strike ect.

      For Rage/Focus generation priority should be
      Juggernaut - Enrage > Sundering Assault > Assault
      Guardian - Combat Focus > Sundering Strike > Strike
      never cap Rage/Focus (i.e. use these when your sitting at 10-12 Rage/Focus) but never go below 2 either so you can always use Retaliation/Riposte as its a major survival skill as a tank, and also for Disruption/Force Kick for interupts

      Rage/Focus spells priority for single target
      Juggernaut - Retaliation (immediately on proc everytime) >> Force Scream/Smash (which ever one is not on CD) > Backhand > Crushing Blow> Vicious Strike
      Guardian- Riposte ( as with Juggernaut use on proc) >> Blade Storm/Force Sweep (again which ever not on CD) > Hilt Strike > Guardian Slash > Slash

      Rage/Focus spells priority for 2+ target (AOE)
      Juggernaut - Retaliation (on proc everytime) >> Force Scream/Smash (which ever one is not on CD) > Sweeping Slash
      Guardian- Riposte (use on proc) >> Blade Storm/Force Sweep (again which ever not on CD) > Cyclone Slash

      Pre-combat Buff
      [Unnatural Might/Force Might], [Self/Party], [not buffed]
      [Soresu Form], [Self], [not buffed]

      Pull
      [Force Charge/Force Leap], [target]

      Ranged target
      [Saber Throw], [Ranged Mob], [if not CC when tanking other melee mobs]

      Target Low Health
      [Vicious Throw/Dispatch], [Target], [Use instead of Vicious Slash/Slash when target HP below 20%]

      Defensive Abilities
      [Invincible/Warding Call], [Self]
      [Endure Pain/Enure], [Self]
      [Saber Ward], [Self]
      [Intercede/Guardian Leap], [Other Tank], [when not tanking otherwise 2nd highest threat]

      Taunts
      [Taunt], [Target], [Tanking and target not focused on you]
      [Threatening Scream/Challenging Call], [2+ Targets], [Tanking and targets not focused on you]

      Interrupts
      [Disruption/Force Kick], [Target], [Casting]
      [Force Choke/Force Stasis], [Target], [Casting when Disruption/Force Kick is on CD]
      [Intimidating Roar/Awe], [2+ Targets], [Casting]

      Others
      [Savage Kick/Opportune Strike], [Target], [Target Snared]
      [Pommel Strike], [Target], [Target Stunned]
      [Unleash/Resolute], [Self], [player snared or stunned]
      [Ravage/Master Strike], [Target], [Rage/Focus capped and other Rage/Focus consuming abilities on CD]
       
    7. Croga

      Croga Well-Known Member

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      Good point. The same should go for Trooper and Bounty Hunter. If someone hasn't done the Bounty Hunter by tomorrow I'll have a look at the names of his abilities.
       
    8. Aevitas

      Aevitas Well-Known Member Staff Member Buddy Core Dev

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      Thank you both for your contribution. We've been writing stubs for Warrior, Trooper, and Consular so far, and I'll write Juggernaut and Marauder tomorrow, and maybe Vanguard as well.

      So, if I got this right, both sides have the same abilities (as in, exactly the same), just with different names?
       
    9. Croga

      Croga Well-Known Member

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      Basically yeah.... They got different graphics I presume but the game mechanics are the same.

      I just haven't found a decent site to translate them yet :(
       
    10. Aevitas

      Aevitas Well-Known Member Staff Member Buddy Core Dev

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      I think the Torhead database can help with that:
      Code:
      http://www.torhead.com/abilities/catg/2
       
    11. wownerds

      wownerds New Member

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      I'd love to do Bounty Hunter - Powertech.
       
    12. Croga

      Croga Well-Known Member

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      Abilities are actually the talent trees so that's not gonna help. Torhead doesn't have enough structure at the moment to give decent information so I just started a Bounty Hunter of my own. I should have all the information we need for the Mercenary by tomorrow. Might do the Powertech as well while I'm at it.
       
    13. silentscope1

      silentscope1 New Member

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      Yes in theory, they only have different names, icons and animation differences. The only different mechanic one I can think of is Sith Inquisitor's [Shock] vs Jedi Consular's [Project] where Shock's damage is instant and Project's damage is after the animation.

      As for information about ability translation between empire and republic, I would use SW:TOR Theorycrafting Forum | Sith Warrior Forums which is kind of like the elitistjerks for SWTOR
       
    14. Mizzy

      Mizzy Member

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      Last edited: Mar 7, 2012
    15. Croga

      Croga Well-Known Member

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      Bounty Hunter - Mercenary - Pyrotech:

      - If Combustible Gas Cylinder not active: Combustible Gas Cylinder
      - If in group and have agro: ?? (need to look this one up)
      - If health < 80% and no healer available: Kolto Overload
      - If health < 60%: Kolto Overload
      - If multiple targets close to each other outside myopic zone and Death From Above off cooldown: Death From Above on central target
      - If multiple targets close to each other and Thermal Detonator off cooldown: Thermal Detonator on central target
      - If multiple targets close to me and Flame Thrower off cooldown: Flame Thrower on central target
      - If multiple targets close to me and Jet Boost off cooldown and not in a group: Jet Boost
      - If in Ammo preservation mode and Ammo < 7: Rapid Shots on weakest target
      - If Ammo < 3: Vent Heat
      - If target not affected by Incendiary Missile: Incendiary Missile on weakest target
      - If High Rail Shot off cooldown: Rail Shot on weakest target
      - If Unload and Thermal Sensor Override off cooldown: Thermal Sensor Override
      - If Unload off cooldown: Unload on weakest target
      - If enough ammo available: Power Shot on weakest target
      - Rapid Shots on weakest target
       
    16. ugauga

      ugauga New Member

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      Inquisitor - Sorcerer - Hybrid

      A. If 3+ normal mobs
      1. Before fight starts: Static Shield on Companion
      2. Start fight: Send pet to pull aggro
      3. Cast Death Field (AOE)
      4. Cast Force Storm (AOE)
      5. Finish mobs with Shock/Force Lightning

      B. If 3+ mobs and 1 silver
      1. Before fight starts: Static Shield on Companion
      2. Start fight: Send pet to pull silver mob
      3. Cast Death Field (AOE)
      4. Cast Force Storm (AOE)
      5. Finish mobs with Shock, Force Lightning, on Wrath proc, cast Chain Lightning

      C. If 3+ mobs and 1 silver and 1 gold
      1. Before fight starts: Static Shield on Companion
      2. Start fight: Send pet to pull silver mob
      3. Whirlwind (stun) gold mob
      4. Affliction on silver mob, Force Lightning when Wrath procs Crushing Darkness, Shock
      5. Gold Mob: Death Field, Shock, Affliction, Force Lightning till Wrath procs then Crushing Darkness (instant due to Wrath), Shock, Force Lightning if Wrath Procs cast Lightning Strike

      Companion:
      For all of the above, Static Shield can only be used every 30 seconds, always keep it up. If Companion health <70% cast Dark Heal

      Player:
      If under attack cast Static Shield on self and if HP < 70% cast Dark Heal

      PVP

      Rotation:

      Single Target:
      You open with Force Lightning until Wrath procs > Cast Deathfield w/ Deathmark on target (20% damage increase for DOTS) > Instant cast Crushing Darkness (20% damage bonus from Wrath proc + 20% Bonus from Deathfield w/Deathmark) > Affliction (15% Bonus from Force Horrors + 20% Bonus from Deathfield w/Deathmark) > Force Lightning spam until Wrath procs > Instant cast Chain Lightning (20% damage Bonus from Wrath proc) > Rinse repeat. You can use Force Lightning, an instant Chain Lightning, or Shock to finish someone off that is close to death.

      Multiple Targets:
      Same rotation as single target, just use your instant chain lightning and deathfield on bunched up groups of enemies, and dot them with affliction if you can. This works well around nodes in all 3 warzones, Huttball middle area, Alderaan nodes, and Void Star blast doors.

      Useful Tips:

      Extrication can be used to pull a party member to you in Huttball, this can help with quick scoring. You can pull someone over a firepit, or up from the bottom put area to the goal line.
      Recklessness is used when I have all my damage cooldown and an instant chain lightning, so I can get a 5k hit medal.
      I alternate between Crushing Darkness and Chain Lightning, they don't share a cooldown and one is faster than the other, so I can usually cast both instantly when they are up using Wrath procs.
      Try not to waste Wrath procs, if it's up cast Crushing Darkness or Chain Lightning on someone.
      I use Jolt to interrupt heals and grav rounds or other high damaging skills.
      I use purge to remove negative effects, but I don't like wasting a GCD while fightning.
      Forceslow people I'm killing if they try running away.
      I use all 3 of my cc abilities, overload, instant whirlwind, and electrocute to either help me win a fight, or run away to safety.
      I use forcespeed to run away from melee, chase down someone, or run through a fire/acid pit in Hutball.
      I shield myself consistently.
       
    17. Croga

      Croga Well-Known Member

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      Ugauga;

      Can you put that information into decision trees?

      For example:

      would become something like:
      - If Static Shield is off cooldown and I'm under attack: Static Shield on me
      - If my health < 70%: Dark Heal on me
      - If Static Shield if off cooldown and companion doesn't have Static Shield: Static Shield on Companion
      - If Companion health < 70%: Dark Heal on Companion
      - If there are 3 hostile mobs: Have Companion attack central mob
      - If Death Field is off cooldown and there are more then 2 hostile mobs: Death Field on central mob
      - If Force Storm is off cooldown and there are more then 2 hostile mobs: Force Storm on central mob
      - If Shock is off cooldown: Shock on weakest mob
      - Force Lightning on weakest mob

      (I'm making a lot of assumptions here that may or may not be right, like cooldowns and stuff)

      Transforming them into these kinds of "Priority Selectors" makes it a lot easier for the developers to put it into program code. The CC will simply go down the list until it reaches a command where all the "ifs" are covered and then casts the spell, then goes to the top again, rince and repeat until all are dead :)
       
    18. ugauga

      ugauga New Member

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      Sith Warrior - Juggernaut
      Rage PvE (a lot of this applies in PvP)

      Rotation or Priority List, and Spec

      You want your spec to look something like this.
      Skill Calculator - Star Wars: The Old Republic (SWTOR) Database

      Rotation

      1. Force Crush* - > Charge\Oblit - > Smash - > Scream - > Sunder - > Ravage
      *as you cast this you want to strafe so you can charge, you very easily can get this in before the GCD is up if you practice this
      2. Force Choke - > Charge\Oblit - > Smash - > Scream - > Sunder - > Ravage

      3. After I?ve done either rotation, and Ravage is coming off CD I?ll do this
      Force Crush* - > Charge- > Smash - > Scream - > Ravage - > Sunder - > Choke

      Typically in any 47 second window (the CD on Choke, or 54 sec for 4 Force Crushes ) you have 2-3 ?garbage? globals free. Saber throw, sunder, and vicious slash can all be used here as fillers.

      The Rage for PVP
      Skill Calculator - Star Wars: The Old Republic (SWTOR) Database
      PvE
      Skill Calculator - Star Wars: The Old Republic (SWTOR) Database
       
    19. ugauga

      ugauga New Member

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      @Croga, if I have a piece of code example I'll make it myself ;-)
       
    20. Croga

      Croga Well-Known Member

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      I think the problem with that would be that the API is probably not finished yet. They did mention it'll be "Singular-like" so you could check out the class-specific code of Singular for examples, I'm sure it won't be too far off.
      There's a good chance that the focus of API development will be partly based on our input here. If we all say we need "my health under X%" that'll be something they prioritize in API development.
       
      Last edited: Mar 8, 2012

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