New Patch, bot won't load.

darkbluefirefly · Jan 14, 2015

roneo1 said: ↑

Because it's not just one user. And if that's the concern I would be fine with having everyone who wants the updated version, send a request via forum pm or email, and have the version emailed to them, even within a day or so. And that way people who are willing to take the risk and have requested the updated version are fine, and the others don't have to be any part of it unless they are willing to.
Click to expand...

pushedx said: ↑

Let's say I did a quick update and didn't check anything. Think back to when the patch was deployed. It was late-evening time for people here in the States, and really early morning for EU. It wasn't exactly peak hours in general, but a good number of people would have updated their bots and went along their way. As Monday started, we'd have been in full swing by the time I'd have woken up. There might have been a few posts of people noticing things added, but let's be honest, if the bot is up and working, most people don't read the forums or other sites after updates because they don't have anything to be concerned about.

If the bot is working and running, unless someone higher up in the Buddy team has a strong reason to kill bot sessions and disable auth, that's never really done. In all likelihood, as long as things look normal, there's no real reason to think otherwise, so I most likely wouldn't have had any reason to do any further checks unless one of our users messaged me (which does happen frequently, but let's just say no one really said anything). I am working on other projects here, so if there's nothing seriously broken with EB, I don't have the time to spend doing things with it like I used to when I only worked on EB.

We're looking at possibly 2-3 days of being up and running without actually knowing what was added. The result in all likelihood (if GGG was trying to crush us instantly), would have been them detecting EB though some of their new code, causing everyone who used EB during that time to have had their account flagged for cheating. When/if GGG decides to do their ban wave (which they are smart, so they know to flag accounts, and track the flow of goods to mules, etc...), we would have been included, and it would have been disastrous.

All because I didn't do my job.

People have been "getting away with" cheating and botting in this game for quite a while now (I started my work in 2012, and have been checking every single patch since waiting for 'something'). By this time, I'm sure most people have given up on taking the precautions necessary to avoid any 'incidents'. I mean, it takes a lot of time and effort keeping up with changes, and after a while, people let their guard down and never expect anything because it seems like nothing will ever be done. It does gets tiring after a while, and I would know since I've been updating EB for quite some time since taking over back when Apoc was the main dev.

That's not the case with me though. I know we have to treat "every patch" as possibly "the patch" they come after us. As a result, every update takes a bit of time as things are checked over, and while users complain about the speed of updates, as they have for the past year of the bot's operation, we always tell them the same thing: it's for their safety. We can always give users compensation for downtime, but we can't un-ban their accounts if we cause them to get banned.

1.3.0i is finally the "proof" as to why we have to work the way we do here at Buddy when it comes to bot development. Yes, we're not perfect, and we have had bans and other mishaps, but the reason is typically due to being outsmarted in one form or another rather than us not doing the things we were supposed it. Had GGG found a way to sneak in bot detection that managed to slip past the things I typically do to check, it would have been very unfortunate, but hey, they would have just gotten us. It happens. There's no shame in it, it's part of the cat-and-mouse game of cheating in games and getting away with it. We just have to use it as a learning lesson and try to improve what we do to avoid it in the future.

That's not the case here though, because of the precautions taken. I say all this because, there's no reason to put out a functional build after a new cheat detection was put into place, without fully knowing what it currently does, and what it can do. I know exactly what they are doing, and what they can do, and the only reason why we're not being targeted yet, is because we didn't put out anything for them to target. You can't ban people for botting, if there's no working bot to ban them by. As soon as I hit that build button though, and we have a live build, things changes, and we need to make sure we are able to handle what they are doing, can do, and have a plan in place for all future patches that might head our way.

I know it's frustrating for users who just want to bot, but the old "almost worry free" era of botting/cheating in PoE is now over. A new era has begun with their focus on using client sided methods to catch cheaters. Before we return, we need to make sure we have the tools in place, and think far enough ahead to anticipate the things they might do, so we don't get trivially wiped. As to whether GGG actually goes after us, or has bigger fish to fry remains to be seen, but regardless, we need to be properly prepared for it.
Click to expand...

*Clap* *Clap*
That's why I am here and not else where.
I hope all you other current/future users will join me.

crowned · Jan 14, 2015

Releasing an unpatched bot isn't something in their best interest. I'm sure everyone would like to be able to test ext, but they're not doing keeping the bot down for no good reason. If people were to use the bot currently poe would likely discover a lot about how the bot functions, potentially leading to a really hard time for EB staff. Not only would it be a big risk for the EB staff but it would also hurt business. Not all people are reasonable, and even if warned that such a feature was to be use at one's own risk, surely people would whine and blame the buddy crew for their bans. Maybe not you, or anyone in this thread, but I can promise you people would. Keeping the duller tools of the shed safe is a big part of what it takes to run a bot.

austinpower · Jan 14, 2015

pushedx said: ↑

Let's say I did a quick update and didn't check anything. Think back to when the patch was deployed. It was late-evening time for people here in the States, and really early morning for EU. It wasn't exactly peak hours in general, but a good number of people would have updated their bots and went along their way. As Monday started, we'd have been in full swing by the time I'd have woken up. There might have been a few posts of people noticing things added, but let's be honest, if the bot is up and working, most people don't read the forums or other sites after updates because they don't have anything to be concerned about.

If the bot is working and running, unless someone higher up in the Buddy team has a strong reason to kill bot sessions and disable auth, that's never really done. In all likelihood, as long as things look normal, there's no real reason to think otherwise, so I most likely wouldn't have had any reason to do any further checks unless one of our users messaged me (which does happen frequently, but let's just say no one really said anything). I am working on other projects here, so if there's nothing seriously broken with EB, I don't have the time to spend doing things with it like I used to when I only worked on EB.

We're looking at possibly 2-3 days of being up and running without actually knowing what was added. The result in all likelihood (if GGG was trying to crush us instantly), would have been them detecting EB though some of their new code, causing everyone who used EB during that time to have had their account flagged for cheating. When/if GGG decides to do their ban wave (which they are smart, so they know to flag accounts, and track the flow of goods to mules, etc...), we would have been included, and it would have been disastrous.

All because I didn't do my job.

People have been "getting away with" cheating and botting in this game for quite a while now (I started my work in 2012, and have been checking every single patch since waiting for 'something'). By this time, I'm sure most people have given up on taking the precautions necessary to avoid any 'incidents'. I mean, it takes a lot of time and effort keeping up with changes, and after a while, people let their guard down and never expect anything because it seems like nothing will ever be done. It does gets tiring after a while, and I would know since I've been updating EB for quite some time since taking over back when Apoc was the main dev.

That's not the case with me though. I know we have to treat "every patch" as possibly "the patch" they come after us. As a result, every update takes a bit of time as things are checked over, and while users complain about the speed of updates, as they have for the past year of the bot's operation, we always tell them the same thing: it's for their safety. We can always give users compensation for downtime, but we can't un-ban their accounts if we cause them to get banned.

1.3.0i is finally the "proof" as to why we have to work the way we do here at Buddy when it comes to bot development. Yes, we're not perfect, and we have had bans and other mishaps, but the reason is typically due to being outsmarted in one form or another rather than us not doing the things we were supposed it. Had GGG found a way to sneak in bot detection that managed to slip past the things I typically do to check, it would have been very unfortunate, but hey, they would have just gotten us. It happens. There's no shame in it, it's part of the cat-and-mouse game of cheating in games and getting away with it. We just have to use it as a learning lesson and try to improve what we do to avoid it in the future.

That's not the case here though, because of the precautions taken. I say all this because, there's no reason to put out a functional build after a new cheat detection was put into place, without fully knowing what it currently does, and what it can do. I know exactly what they are doing, and what they can do, and the only reason why we're not being targeted yet, is because we didn't put out anything for them to target. You can't ban people for botting, if there's no working bot to ban them by. As soon as I hit that build button though, and we have a live build, things changes, and we need to make sure we are able to handle what they are doing, can do, and have a plan in place for all future patches that might head our way.

I know it's frustrating for users who just want to bot, but the old "almost worry free" era of botting/cheating in PoE is now over. A new era has begun with their focus on using client sided methods to catch cheaters. Before we return, we need to make sure we have the tools in place, and think far enough ahead to anticipate the things they might do, so we don't get trivially wiped. As to whether GGG actually goes after us, or has bigger fish to fry remains to be seen, but regardless, we need to be properly prepared for it.
Click to expand...

take your time sir. We are no hurry.

whistlingswordsman · Jan 14, 2015

Waiting is frustrating but getting banned is even more painful. i appreciate the level of diligence the team is putting in.

Darox · Jan 14, 2015

whistlingswordsman said: ↑

Waiting is frustrating but getting banned is even more painful. i appreciate the level of diligence the team is putting in.
Click to expand...

Yup, everybody complaining about time... but not nearly as much as when everybody gets banned haha. Rather wait a week than get banned every. Or wait a month than get banned ever.

chlopiec · Jan 14, 2015

As Pushedx says, it is no longer "worry free". GGG is implementing anti-cheat.

fiction · Jan 14, 2015

pushedx said: ↑

Let's say I did a quick update and didn't check anything. Think back to when the patch was deployed. It was late-evening time for people here in the States, and really early morning for EU. It wasn't exactly peak hours in general, but a good number of people would have updated their bots and went along their way. As Monday started, we'd have been in full swing by the time I'd have woken up. There might have been a few posts of people noticing things added, but let's be honest, if the bot is up and working, most people don't read the forums or other sites after updates because they don't have anything to be concerned about.

If the bot is working and running, unless someone higher up in the Buddy team has a strong reason to kill bot sessions and disable auth, that's never really done. In all likelihood, as long as things look normal, there's no real reason to think otherwise, so I most likely wouldn't have had any reason to do any further checks unless one of our users messaged me (which does happen frequently, but let's just say no one really said anything). I am working on other projects here, so if there's nothing seriously broken with EB, I don't have the time to spend doing things with it like I used to when I only worked on EB.

We're looking at possibly 2-3 days of being up and running without actually knowing what was added. The result in all likelihood (if GGG was trying to crush us instantly), would have been them detecting EB though some of their new code, causing everyone who used EB during that time to have had their account flagged for cheating. When/if GGG decides to do their ban wave (which they are smart, so they know to flag accounts, and track the flow of goods to mules, etc...), we would have been included, and it would have been disastrous.

All because I didn't do my job.

People have been "getting away with" cheating and botting in this game for quite a while now (I started my work in 2012, and have been checking every single patch since waiting for 'something'). By this time, I'm sure most people have given up on taking the precautions necessary to avoid any 'incidents'. I mean, it takes a lot of time and effort keeping up with changes, and after a while, people let their guard down and never expect anything because it seems like nothing will ever be done. It does gets tiring after a while, and I would know since I've been updating EB for quite some time since taking over back when Apoc was the main dev.

That's not the case with me though. I know we have to treat "every patch" as possibly "the patch" they come after us. As a result, every update takes a bit of time as things are checked over, and while users complain about the speed of updates, as they have for the past year of the bot's operation, we always tell them the same thing: it's for their safety. We can always give users compensation for downtime, but we can't un-ban their accounts if we cause them to get banned.

1.3.0i is finally the "proof" as to why we have to work the way we do here at Buddy when it comes to bot development. Yes, we're not perfect, and we have had bans and other mishaps, but the reason is typically due to being outsmarted in one form or another rather than us not doing the things we were supposed it. Had GGG found a way to sneak in bot detection that managed to slip past the things I typically do to check, it would have been very unfortunate, but hey, they would have just gotten us. It happens. There's no shame in it, it's part of the cat-and-mouse game of cheating in games and getting away with it. We just have to use it as a learning lesson and try to improve what we do to avoid it in the future.

That's not the case here though, because of the precautions taken. I say all this because, there's no reason to put out a functional build after a new cheat detection was put into place, without fully knowing what it currently does, and what it can do. I know exactly what they are doing, and what they can do, and the only reason why we're not being targeted yet, is because we didn't put out anything for them to target. You can't ban people for botting, if there's no working bot to ban them by. As soon as I hit that build button though, and we have a live build, things changes, and we need to make sure we are able to handle what they are doing, can do, and have a plan in place for all future patches that might head our way.

I know it's frustrating for users who just want to bot, but the old "almost worry free" era of botting/cheating in PoE is now over. A new era has begun with their focus on using client sided methods to catch cheaters. Before we return, we need to make sure we have the tools in place, and think far enough ahead to anticipate the things they might do, so we don't get trivially wiped. As to whether GGG actually goes after us, or has bigger fish to fry remains to be seen, but regardless, we need to be properly prepared for it.
Click to expand...

I'm just throwing my 2 cents in the pot here.

It's extremely likely they have already run most bots/hacks against they're system on local builds to verify expected behavior. I don't write detection systems, but the thought of developing functionality and not performing QA is abysmal (not that you haven't already come to that conclusion). For anyone to think they are only just now, as of this patch, performing detection is kind of crazy (Whether internally or publicly).

Either way, keep it up and I appreciate (financially ) your efforts.

Urgent2009 · Jan 15, 2015

I'm now starting to get afraid that botting will be history in PoE... What are the chances of that happening do you guys think?

cyberbot · Jan 15, 2015

Urgent2009 said: ↑

I'm now starting to get afraid that botting will be history in PoE... What are the chances of that happening do you guys think?
Click to expand...

Not high. If Blizzard, who has so many resources, can't stop it, I doubt if GGG can.

Greenbotter · Jan 15, 2015

cyberbot said: ↑

Not high. If Blizzard, who has so many resources, can't stop it, I doubt if GGG can.
Click to expand...

The difference is Blizzard makes alot of money off bots.
They bot a while and get a ban, they buy a new account and start over.

While in PoE there's no financial income for GGG.

Simia · Jan 15, 2015

Greenbotter

But there is still many botters who buy stash and cosmetic. So they will make money

hansmeier · Jan 15, 2015

Greenbotter said: ↑

The difference is Blizzard makes alot of money off bots.
They bot a while and get a ban, they buy a new account and start over.

While in PoE there's no financial income for GGG.
Click to expand...

jipjipjip ...
Stashes ftw :X

htnho · Jan 15, 2015

Greenbotter said: ↑

The difference is Blizzard makes alot of money off bots.
They bot a while and get a ban, they buy a new account and start over.

While in PoE there's no financial income for GGG.
Click to expand...

It seems right. However I can also say legit players make no financial income for GGG either. No matter you are botter or not you don't pay a dime for GGG unless you bought stash(es), comic items,...
Blizzard is also the same, botter or legit players all have to buy games ( and game time if they last more than 1 month).

In my opinion botters need more stash space than non botters ( aka they tend to buy more stash space or buy stash in general)

toNyx · Jan 15, 2015

htnho said: ↑

It seems right. However I can also say legit players make no financial income for GGG either. No matter you are botter or not you don't pay a dime for GGG unless you bought stash(es), comic items,...
Blizzard is also the same, botter or legit players all have to buy games ( and game time if they last more than 1 month).

In my opinion botters need more stash space than non botters ( aka they tend to buy more stash space or buy stash in general)
Click to expand...

Terribly wrong. I never need more than 4 stash pages high-end legit players (80+) need those. Soooooooo niet.

darkbluefirefly · Jan 15, 2015

toNyx said: ↑

Terribly wrong. I never need more than 4 stash pages high-end legit players (80+) need those. Soooooooo niet.
Click to expand...

Hey ,
I think it's a matter of preference.
All my bots have the 6 extra tabs, it's because I check them like once every 3-4 days, depending on cycle. 3 tabs usually fill in a day or so, with just currency.

alter5 · Jan 15, 2015

darkbluefirefly said: ↑

Hey ,
I think it's a matter of preference.
All my bots have the 6 extra tabs, it's because I check them like once every 3-4 days, depending on cycle. 3 tabs usually fill in a day or so, with just currency.
Click to expand...

Dude i would pay for your setup *___*

darkbluefirefly · Jan 15, 2015

alter5 said: ↑

Dude i would pay for your setup *___*
Click to expand...

Hey alter5,
Sorry, I'm already getting paid for my setup.

alter5 · Jan 15, 2015

darkbluefirefly said: ↑

Hey alter5,
Sorry, I'm already getting paid for my setup.
Click to expand...

haha we know man we know... :/

sfrattini · Jan 15, 2015

darkbluefirefly said: ↑

Hey ,
I think it's a matter of preference.
All my bots have the 6 extra tabs, it's because I check them like once every 3-4 days, depending on cycle. 3 tabs usually fill in a day or so, with just currency.
Click to expand...

3 tabs full of currency in 1 day??? wow...you need to tell us what u run cause I can make 5-6ex a day top

darkbluefirefly · Jan 15, 2015

sfrattini said: ↑

3 tabs full of currency in 1 day??? wow...you need to tell us what u run cause I can make 5-6ex a day top
Click to expand...

Hey All,
Using ExVault's Map plugin, it's so op-win. Before I used to have a good sizable 77 Map pool, now not so, so I run 74~ mainly, rare 74's.
Mind you each bot that makes currency in that amount isn't your ordinary equipped bot, =). There's a reason why Mjölner went up so fast in the past, and didn't have much supply, dam things vaal chances are low as hell.
Edit Typo

Edit of an Edit,
3 Tabs full of currency is more then a few ex =), and please stop pming me people, you know who you are!!!

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