content to search waives 4th amendment rights.

Saying no means you don't get access to their product, so there's nothing suspicious for them to search. You simply can't do anything with the product.

 

i would love to learn about EU privacy laws. can anyone post the actual law, or judge rulings that show modern computer search articles.

this thread is directed towards US laws. as i am an American, i cannot begin to speak for EU.

this is an open invite for info on EU. please post reference and not just person anecdotes.

 

EUR-Lex - 31995L0046 - EN

Have fun.

 

An officer works with law enforcement and is backed by the government. Blizzard is a private business. That's not quite a valid comparison. It's one thing to waive your 4th amendment to the government, and another to waive it to another citizen. There is a lot of evidence being tossed around, but I'm not 100% sure it actually translates to this specific scenario (It could! But I personally don't see a solid connection just yet).

With your original post on AOL, the information on child pornography was actually stored ON AOL's servers AND the activity was criminal. They weren't scanning foreign computers, the information was going through their own servers. Neither of these actually apply to Blizzard's scenario. They would have had to have scanned outside of information that they owned, and then found and used information that was NOT illegal for a purpose other than prosecuting in criminal court. These are pretty key differences, and I don't actually think a judge would have ruled the same way. It's important to keep in mind that this was also a criminal court, not a civil one.

The location of the information (being stored on their own services or not) is of particular importance. It limits the potential data to things that they can reasonably expect to go through their services. As an example, imagine that a government worker plays WoW on a government PC containing access to secret information. Even though that government worker agreed to the ToU, he didn't actually have rights to agree on behalf of the government. As a result, Blizzard then scans a government PC which touches sensitive, secret information. That's illegal on Blizzards part, even though it was technically the fault of the government worker. Had Blizzard only been scanning information on their own servers, as in AOLs case, they would be limiting the information they were scanning to things they could reasonably, and legally, scan. Invasively looking through foreign PC for ALL kinds of information, and only looking through information that the end user sends you (as in AOL's case) are VERY different.

The real question that I have yet to see a solid answer to is whether it's actually possible to waive an amendment right to another citizen of the United States with equal rights as you. If so, which amendments are waive-able? If Blizzard asked me to waive my right to free speech, could they record my microphone while I played the game and ban me if I spoke badly of them? Obviously they wouldn't, but would it be possible?

 

@deathshiver

i welcome your comments and would love to discuss this at great lengths. i think this falls into the civil vs the criminal and i think we can waive any right. you mentioned the right to speech.

while you have the right to free speech, it may not mean what you think. free speech doesnt mean i can stand in a theater and yell FIRE. i cant stand on a plane and yell BOMB. there are no laws says you cant say the words 'fire' or 'bomb' yet we give up these rights when we put ourselves in specific situations. take the Terms for instance.

how many times do we agree to limit our free speech in that passage. ofc there is no legal ramifications if we break this agreement. we arent talking about law. we are talking about adults agreeing to cooperate with rules set forth by the business.
funny that i mention adults when so many children play this game, amirite...

from section 3. you have to have your parent click agree if you are a minor. breaking this simple rule here can result in being banned.

lets keep this on the civil side as far as liability. since this is a citizen vs a company.

i download an antivirus program. it states in their Terms:

you click agree because of course you want to use the software.

the software does exactly what you agreed it would do. it finds out you cheated and used someone elses program. and as per your agreement the contract is broken.

the software scans your whole computer.

this program scans outside its own dedicated mem space because you gave it permission

no laws were broken

yet you agreed to the terms and your contract is cancelled.

this is pretty straight forward stuff here.

you agree to follow the rules, you break the rules, your service is terminated.

 

My fear is how far will this go? We sing an agreement to alow them to do this but what if they are gathering more then needed with out telling us? What if they found something they shouldn't and reported it to the government or something ? blizzard could have full view of everything on your computer and they wouldn't tell you then next thing you know nsa will force blizzard to hand over all info gained. Just like they did with verizon

 

unfortunately, blizzard is required by law to report any criminal activity.

you need to take this argument to the NSA forums because it has nothing to do with blizzard. and if its that big of a fear, dont put yourself in the position to be spied upon by playing a game.

and remember a wise NSA man once said 'if you arent doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear'

and tbh, google knows more about me than the NSA. no stopping that at all.

 

I am liking the nail your hammer hit right there!

 

Section 4

you purchased the right to see and use the items with an account which blizz retains ownership. they retain ownership of every single aspect of the game. even your mounts.

Section 8

sorry bro, thought you read that already. you did agree to it didnt you?

 

Everytime something like this happens the armchair lawyers and armchair legal professionals come out. love it

 

Everyone agreed to read and understand it before playing the game. now they come here guessing what the Terms say.

do you think companies pay tons of money to lawyers to make this shit up? or to protect their ass when dumbshit try to cheat them.

know the risk. why would anyone go into this blindly and bitch when they got caught violating rules they were too lazy to read.

 

Never said you did, nor did I single you out. Don't be so defensive if what I said isn't true to you.

 

yeh, i didnt mean that to sound like i was being shitty to you personally. just trying to enlighten people a little. there are too many people making blind accusations and just guessing. im trying to post information straight from the source. showing its not just my opinion.

sorry if i sounded gruff towards you S.P.

 

I understand! Tone can be hard over the internet, people making blind accusations and just guessing is what I am mostly referring to.

 

im surprised at the number of people who 'saw it in chat so it must be true' and then repeat that info instead of actually researching the subject.

and when it comes down to it, in a battle between a company that employs a team of lawyers and random forum posters. ill bet on the lawyers every single time.

even HB hired a team of lawyers when they fought blizz.

lawyers are the kings of the trolls. they have the ability to argue both sides, convince you either way, and go away with no guilt. AND they get paid to do it, what a wonderful job that would be.

 

i think the thing people are forgetting is blizzard is still a company. we are all butt hurt cause we got banned so theres all these tin hats out and yet i think the best answer can be found when we put our attitudes and emotions away from getting caught and look at blizzard as what they are, a company that only NEEDS to worry about their bottom line. not that community, not the botters, not the state of the game. those are all sub categories of the bottom line so yes they are related but they are not enough to determine blizzards actions and dictate what they do.

 

Hello Terrif, id like to take the time to welcome you to the buddyforums!! you got here just in time to experience this upheaval in our little community. Sorry for that, wish our timing could have been better.

But im not even sure what you are responding to. this thread is a discussion about whether or not Americans can waive their 4th amendment right by giving written consent.
Feel free to chime in on our discussion subject, or to join one of the other 'tinfoil hat' threads that are popping up.

 

**Blizzard owns, has licensed, or otherwise has rights to all of the content that appears in the Game. You agree that you have no right or title in or to any such content, including without limitation the virtual goods or currency appearing or originating in the Game, or any other attributes associated with any Account.**

Honestly at the time I didn't read just clicked and played. too long.

And as you stated: do you think companies pay tons of money to lawyers to make this shit up? or to protect their ass when dumbshit try to cheat them.

I "dumbshit" lol am not a lawyer hence why I just did click and play. Know very well why lawyers are involved in writing agreements. so it can be written so confusing and lengthy so that common folk like myself due just that.

I was just understanding this thought:
the second Blizzard put £$ on mounts,pets,characters and Gold, Afaik those things stopped being apart of the account that they "own" and became Personal, Financial assets, i cant see any lawful way they can freeze these assets.

and asking didn't blizzard go against there own agreement:
Blizzard does not recognize any purported transfers of virtual property executed outside of the Game, or the purported sale, gift or trade in the “real world” of anything that appears or originates in the Game. Accordingly, you may not sell in-game items or currency for “real” money, or exchange those items or currency for value outside of the Game.

but then again it is their game and say they can change the agreement at anytime and we have consented to that change

I guess my purchase of the use of level jump and or mounts being an asset is the same as my asset of purchase of a 12 pack of beer, enjoyed for a little bit but eventually pissed down the drain.

no hard feelings, not mad, I accept my consequences. just reading along and if a possible loop hole open to possibility in the use of.

example: right turn prohibited at intersection 2nd and A. so I go to 2nd and B turn left, then left at B and 1st, then again at 1st and A. therefore I have gotten my travel route, just had to go around the prohibition.

 

many of us, myself included, clicked to play.

this is much like a TCG card. in card form, the card has monetary value, and can be traded and sold out of game. once the card is scratched and redeemed ingame, it becomes a pixel and part of an account owned by blizzard. you can still trade the item ingame, but it loses its monetary value and becomes a blizzard owned pixel.

once the item becomes ones and zeros, blizz owns them.

you buy a car.
you are making payments
you paint the car
you fail to pay
your car gets taken away
the paint is now property of the car owner.

its an example, maybe not a very good one. but easy to understand the idea.

 

I really think i can win a case against blizz here im my country.
But i know blizzard will simply ignore our jurisdiction and refuse to comply. The judge will get pissed and fix daily fine, and then i'll ask for some more extreme measures like block the country access to their services.

But i think every wow player here will come after me, if i manage to pull something like that.

I saw some cases off the courts issuing orders to ISP's to block access to some services, cause the companys failed to comply the orders.

I want to know, you guys really think it worth fight in legal courts over this ?